Seeking Advice
Apr. 1st, 2012 09:38 am![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
ladyspriteSo I promised myself someday I would go to Italy. Except that, when I put things in abstract terms like that, I never actually get around to doing them - I come up with excuses to postpone, and not to waste money on frivolities, and reasons it's not practical, until it's too late. So I promised myself last year that in 2012 I would go to Italy, because when I set concrete dates like that, it's harder to back out.
And now, with![[livejournal.com profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/external/lj-userinfo.gif)
umbran anticipating gainful employment, it looks like this is actually going to be feasible. Which is both awesome and scary.
Here's the deal - I've never traveled outside the country before, with the exception of one (awesome) week in England when I was 22. I've never been somewhere that I don't speak the language, I've never had to navigate foreign cities, and I have precious little idea of what to expect.
So I'm taking this opportunity to pick the brains of my friends - any advice for traveling the world, and Italy in particular? We're looking at going sometime in October, both for our anniversary and because I've been told that's a decent time of year to head there, and I'd like to go to Venice, if only because that's where a huge chunk of my SCA efforts have been focused. Rome would be awesome too, if it's feasible to hit both. A coworker has recommended this tour company, which *seems* pretty cool, but I'm not sure whether that would fall into the category of 'making things incredibly easier' versus 'spending a lot of money to make the experience pre-processed and cheesy.'
Any hints, advice, or experiences in general would be welcome!
And now, with
umbran anticipating gainful employment, it looks like this is actually going to be feasible. Which is both awesome and scary.Here's the deal - I've never traveled outside the country before, with the exception of one (awesome) week in England when I was 22. I've never been somewhere that I don't speak the language, I've never had to navigate foreign cities, and I have precious little idea of what to expect.
So I'm taking this opportunity to pick the brains of my friends - any advice for traveling the world, and Italy in particular? We're looking at going sometime in October, both for our anniversary and because I've been told that's a decent time of year to head there, and I'd like to go to Venice, if only because that's where a huge chunk of my SCA efforts have been focused. Rome would be awesome too, if it's feasible to hit both. A coworker has recommended this tour company, which *seems* pretty cool, but I'm not sure whether that would fall into the category of 'making things incredibly easier' versus 'spending a lot of money to make the experience pre-processed and cheesy.'
Any hints, advice, or experiences in general would be welcome!
![[identity profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/openid.png){kind=small}
no subject
Date: 2012-04-01 01:55 pm (UTC)- Eat everything on your plate. Eat slowly if you have to, take hours if you have to, but restaurant folks get upset if you don't eat all the food you order.
- Try not to drive yourself if you can help it. Drivers over there are terrifying. As a pedestrian, though, it's safe to assume that cars will usually stop for you even if it looks like they won't. Try to cross with crowds anyway.
- There are pickpockets. Keep stuff in harder-to-reach areas. I was fine in my cargo pants.
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Date: 2012-04-02 05:27 pm (UTC)Dear heavens, yes, and they're a lot more talented and common than you typically find in American cities. In France, I found the subway to be particularly perilous; don't know about Italy specifically...
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Date: 2012-04-01 02:16 pm (UTC)It used to be, in Europe in general, that when you got to a city you could locate the tourist information office and they would find you a hotel. You would give them your cost parameters and needs (bathroom in the room, location) and they would find you a place. I don't know if they still do that, though, but if they do it's useful to keep in mind in case you have a sudden urge to visit somewhere you hadn't planned.
Invest in a money belt, for passport and extra cash. A purse that has a strap that goes across your body rather than over one shoulder is more likely to deter pickpockets. Don't wear good jewelry, or flash an expensive camera.
Instead of eating in restaurants all the time, pocket some of the rolls from the continental breakfast (likely included in your hotel costs), or locate a good bakery and buy bread, cheese, meat etc. Then make your own lunches or dinners and cut down on food costs. Although, you really do have to eat out at least some of the time - the food in Italy is brilliant. But beware of portions - there are often several courses, and there's a lot of food.
Drink bottled water. Or wine. *g*
See if you can d/l maps of walking tours.
Italy has good train service. It's probably easiest to move from city to city by train than any other way.
GO TO FLORENCE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Date: 2012-04-02 11:59 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2012-04-01 02:44 pm (UTC)They work with locals mostly-- you stay in somebody's apartment for a week or two and while there are tours (also led by locals) you can ignore those if you want. They do these once a year or so and have a great time whereever they go.
Either way, Rick Steeves is apparently the guy whose books you should read if you want travel advice.
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Date: 2012-04-01 02:59 pm (UTC)1. My first piece of advice would have been to go in late March/early April. Tourist season is about to start, so they're opening up the pools but aren't charging full rates. My college group went for $2000 and stayed in 4-star hotels for a week. Meals and airfare included.
2. Don't worry about cash. If your debit card has a 4-digit pin and your bank isn't a jerk about international transactions, your credit card is the way to go, and your debit card can get you all the cash you need.
3. Eat in restaurants, but don't forget sandwich vendors and street carts. Amazing food and cheap, too.
4. Gelato. OMG, Gelato.
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Date: 2012-04-01 03:02 pm (UTC)It is entirely feasible to do both Rome and Venice, depending on how long you plan to be there, how much you want to see in each place, and how many things you cram into a day. A week would be enough to do both, with seeing two or three sites of interest a day, if you want to see about 5-7 sites of interest in each city. Guidebooks will often tell you how much time to allot to each site, but often allot too little time to museums for the typical SCAdian. A tour also might not allot enough time in museums for you. A quick glance at one tour on your link shows that they don't mention going to the Uffizi Galleries while in Florence, which is one of the necessary stops in that city, IMO. I would recommend researching the place you want to go and seeing if all the things you want to see are on the tour. If items you want to see are not on the tour, you could stay a day after/before the tour and see them on your own. Some tours allow for time on your own to explore, including the one listed above, so that might work too.
I can't recommend seeing Florence too much. It has a much more medieval feel than Rome, and has lots of interesting things to see: the Ponte Vecchio, the baptistry doors, the Uffizi, Michelangelo's David. Of the places I went to in Italy, it is the city I most want to return to.
If you decide to see Rome on your own, be careful to research what days the Forum is open before you go. It was not open when I was there :(
Make sure that you keep your passport and other important items in internal pockets or under clothing. Each trip I have been on, either I or someone I was with had a near miss or something stolen. In Rome, a group of small children were running around with sheets of newspaper. They would run up to a tourist with a fanny pack, get close enough to put the newspaper over the fanny pack, and open the fanny pack under the newspaper where the tourist couldn't see. They were trying this even after one of my group pointed this out to us. On other trips, I have put my hand down near my pocket and felt another hand trying to get into it, and one of my students had an exterior pocket of her backpack unzipped and her passport and wallet stolen.
Since you are going in October, you probably won't be wearing shorts, which are often frowned on in the cathedrals and churches. I don't think the ones in Italy require skirts.
Eat gelato.
no subject
Date: 2012-04-01 03:33 pm (UTC)When I was in Italy (a long time ago), most people spoke at least a tiny bit of English and were pretty patient with a tourist communicating via phrasebook and wild gesticulations. (except for the guys who tried to arrest me, but that's a tale for another time).
[NB: I haven't use a tour company since I was a teenager] Tours are nice because they take care of the logistics. And it's great for visiting multiple cities or ones with lousy public transit because you don't need to worry about getting yourself from place to place. That said, make sure they let you have plenty of free time for exploration. Your priorities are likely to be different from your average American tourist.
That said, I think you could handle it on your own. Travel arrangements in foreign countries have gotten vastly easier with the Internet.
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Date: 2012-04-01 03:56 pm (UTC)I've used it before and like it (ItalianPod specifically) -- I actually currently pay for a subscription to JapanesePod101.com which is by the same company.
(Be aware that it does pop up a little video with sound immediately on accessing the website. Mef.)
no subject
Date: 2012-04-01 04:04 pm (UTC)I recommend taking the train between cities. You can figure out the trains easily enough and they work well. Do not drive -- it is not for the faint of heart. Luckily, you don't need to. Florence, for example, is a small city and you can walk wherever you want to get to. There is more art per square inch there than anyplace on earth, be prepared for brain overload. Rome is much bigger, but you can get around.
I wouldn't stress about it. These places are used to tourists. Dress modestly in churches (no shorts or tank tops). You can be topless on the Lido, but it's all a question of context. Keep your valuables close, don't carry around a ton of luggage, it is a nuisance on the train. You can use a credit card or ATM card anywhere. People don't use Travelers Cheques any more, expect people to be puzzled by them if you try. There are also Changes (Cambio), but the ATM is easier (4 digit passwords last time I checked).
I assume you'll be with your husband, which means you won't have to put up with the heckling men direct at anything resembling an attractive woman.
Read up in advance, Rick Steves is probably a great guidebook, but also check out Lonely Planet, Fodors, and similar, just to get some perspectives.
no subject
Date: 2012-04-01 05:13 pm (UTC)1) YAY TRAVEL. You'll love it. Take as long as you possibly can.
1B) Everywhere you go, people will speak English. Really. Don't worry about language problems. If you're concerned, buy one of those point-picture book things for emergencies - I bought one for my last trip to China/Mongolia (where there _are_ language difficulties in being a traveler) and it stayed in the bottom of my bag. You're used to being flexible (I'm in awe of your relief work) - and that will put you far ahead of mere mortals abroad.
2) I loved Venice and the tinytiny towns separated by OMG gorgeous valleys of olive trees, crops, and grapevines of the Tuscany region. (This pix sums up what I loved about that region - we stopped for 1h, and I could have stayed for 3d, just walking, however, the castle/town was quite touristy and probably deathly expensive; I bought the above at a little hole in the wall outside of the town that catered to locals looking for a snack: http://www.flickr.com/photos/clstal/795359103/ )
Italy pix from that trip/tour: http://www.flickr.com/photos/clstal/tags/italy/ Venice was my ABSOLUTE FAV place of the whole trip but it is heart-attack-inducingly expensive. Hotels are insanely expensive (unless you want to spend hours/frustration/getting lost/unpleasantness and stay in less central locations, food is expensive, but at least (unlike the rest of Italy, in my experience) amenable to wandering near your hotel and finding good restaurants, likely because your hotel is in a central location frequented by tourists AND locals... which makes all the difference in the world, in my opinion. This lady just got back from Venice - and might have advice on places to stay, if you're interested: http://www.yarnagogo.com/blog/2012/03/in-venice.html
3) I took the Globus tour w/ my mom a few years ago. They were great, 100% professional, accommodating, and the tour guide lady was well-suited for the task. My only complaint was that on the one or two tour-provided meals, the food sucked - the places that can accommodate a tour bus full of people don't cater to locals and therefore can serve sub-par food as long as they can do it quickly. Not the fault of the tour company, this is a problem of feeding the masses. The globus tour was _not_ food-focused, something I regret to this day and would consider a major drawback (and is the reason I'd like to go back) - we passed through so many regions famous for food/wine/whatever and those were never featured or mentioned by the tour. If you do take a tour, book yourself several days ahead of the tour so you can get over the atrocious jet lag and acclimate, so when the tour starts, you aren't miserable when you're supposed to be viewing once-in-a-lifetime artwork/places/etc. The tour place can rec a location or give you the name of the hotel where the tour starts... and you can book there or nearby using hostels.com or one of the other international hotel sites.
...
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Date: 2012-04-01 05:14 pm (UTC)More Globus info: they will get you in and out of and transported to all of the major sights of Italy in a dead minimum of time. This is a plus or a minus depending on your POV.
I hate tours and I would not recommend them, that being said, Globus was great and if you like tours AND ARE DETERMINED TO BOOK IN ADVANCE, I would rec them. However, if you prefer to book tours yourself once you arrive, you can save boatloads of cash and have a local tour guide (awesome!). However, it depends on how you travel and how open you are to finding your own way to the train station/bus depot/metro/etc. I don't care for 'sights' or monuments or museums... my idea of travel is dumping my bags somewhere and walking for hours, eating, sitting, drinking (coffee, wine, beer), walking, walking, eating, sitting, reading, etc. Repeat till boredom sets in or you make friends (happens quickly!) and then repeat all of that but with conversation. I'm a cheep bastard and for that, I pay a little extra in the frustration of navigating my map-incompetent self around a city. If I'm going to take a tour, it's going to be a 1d tour to see something specific and hiring local is _much_ preferred. This is also the cheapest way to travel - self-cater your lunch (and enjoy the experience of shopping in different supermarkets - one of my FAV things to do abroad!) and a few breakfasts, pay for coffee, sweet snacks, and dinner, a few breakfasts, and any admissions/transport, and you've seen a ton, interacted with lots of locals, had a great time wandering, and surprised yourself with the pleasant laziness of _vacationing_!
For info from someone who just left Rome and is touring Italy currently, see this lady: http://www.ottsworld.com/ She's excellent, a sweetheart, and I'd take her recommendations any time (also, she takes gorgeous pictures and doesn't hate 'sights' as much as I do).
Oh, and take an olive oil tour... sounds crazy, but my mom took one at a monastery and I think it was one of the highlights for her (I didn't go, but wish I had) - she left having purchased a box of olive oil that arrived at our house a few weeks later and became gifts and one of the most-enjoyed reminders of that trip (I'm not an olive oil geek, but this was the best stuff I've ever tasted). Also, the trains are lovely, easy to navigate and super-safe, if you don't go the tour/tourbus route. (Also - things to bring home: lemonchillo and grappa, both departure-airport-purchasable for tax and easy transport purposes.)
I still dream of the coffee in Italy. Truck stop espresso of the lowest quality is far superior to the most snotty coffee-shop espresso in the US. Eat gelato every day and drink as much coffee as you can stand - both are incomparable, widely available, comparatively cheep, and highly memorable.
YAY!!
no subject
Date: 2012-04-01 05:35 pm (UTC)I use a small backpack (REI Flash 18), bury my wallet w/ all but 1 card in the bottom and keep a small ammt of cash +/- 1 atm card in my pocket (local equiv. of the cost of a meal and a few things from a street vendor). My small crappy backpack has a drawstring, which I secure using a carabeaner to a strap to make opening it difficult. The only place I've ever felt pickpocketing was a problem was Ulan Batar, Mongolia -- where it was a HUGE problem (though the only time my bag was messed with was after I'd wandered the enormous western-style grocery store wide-eyed and food-deprived). Experienced travelers got pick-pocketed in UB - it was impressive and inconvenient but never violent, thankfully.
I'm a paranoid hide-passport-in-room person rather than carry-it-with-you, but YMMV. The same for large wads of cash (which you'll have no reason to deal with in Italy - more an issue in Mongolia/rural China/Turkey when ATMs aren't easily and widely available).
For busses/trains/planes: pack a box of larabars/cliffbars/snickers. Convenience packaged food isn't as widely available abroad as it is in the US and being time-shifted and starving is a quick way to make a minorly stressful experience a misery. I'm an aggressively light packer (I'm carrying it all on my back!) and find the weight/space totally worth it.
Plugs - buy a small converter for the plugs (probably to the 2 round prongs) but don't worry about actual _converters_ (ie involving transformers), your laptop/batery chargers/phone chargers will do the trick for you.
Phone abroad - you won't need one. If you'd for some reason (*highly* not recced) want to use your phone abroad, call your carrier before you leave and add international options as needed. However, unless you're a highly adventurous traveler and will be calling hostels while on the road to book rooms, or will be doing complex itinerary ballet between the members of your party, a phone is really *really* not necessary. Email/wifi/skype will be utterly sufficient to keep in touch w/ loved ones, book rooms/tours/research locations/etc.
Drink water. Hydration helps w/ jet lag.
OK, I'm stepping away from the computer now.... :-) I LOVE travel and just got so excited that you're going!
no subject
Date: 2012-04-01 06:25 pm (UTC)dont carry cash. jsut use the ATM, but call your bank and credit card company first to warn them or they may think your card was stolen.
make a scan of your passport, ptint a copy and leave with a freind and email a copy to yourself.
in Rome, beware of hordes of gypsy children. it sounds racist, but they come to you in groups with large sheets of poster board and show it to you to try to get you to buy it, and steal your bags and things where you cant see under hte board. no shit, seriously. also they try to sell you thier sisters. it was weird.
go to the art museums, all of them.
take the trains, and busses, dont bother witha tour it will be cheesy and dumb and you will miss the cool things.
go to the coleseum and go to the tunnels under it.
no subject
Date: 2012-04-01 11:49 pm (UTC)Get a guide like "lonely planet". Prices for food vary hugely, and away from touristy places are fine.
We had no real issue not speaking Italian around tourist attractions, and elsewhere was fine.
My $0.02
Date: 2012-04-01 11:59 pm (UTC)English is pretty common - tourism is a major enough industry you'll find most places manage at least one other language.
Pickpocketing - Mom and I didn't have a problem, BUT we did invest in the Magellan travel purses, which are designed to deter theft (wires in the purse straps, mesh in the bottom and sides, zippers that clip and tuck under other flaps, etc). Durable as heck, full of handy pockets and niches, and about $60-100. Room for water bottles and a small umbrella, even! I really do recommend them. We also locked our passports in the hotel safe and carried laminated, 2/3-scale color copies in our wallets. (On the ship, they confiscate your passports once you're on board. A little nerve-wracking, to hand over your only way home, but it's a well-oiled machine.) We also locked photocopies of our cards and IDs in the safe with the passport - backup plan, in case something was stolen and we had to call, we had the numbers handy. ATMs are everywhere. Check with your bank about fees and exchange rates; some places also offer international debit cards that you can pre-load with a certain amount, if you're wary of linking to your home banking information. We used those in Spain and Portugal with no difficulties.
One trick we did hear about when it came to pickpockets was a woman with a baby and other children - she'll try to hand you the baby - don't accept!!! - while the kids rifle through your bags/pockets during the distraction. We were told to keep our purses in front, our arm across them firmly, and to never feel guilty for telling these folks no with as much conviction as we could muster. (I'm not exactly tender-hearted, so this wasn't a problem for me. I guess I don't look cuddly, either - no one approached us. ;P )
Leave copies of important documents and your itinerary with someone at home (we had a folder by the phone for the house/dog sitter) and be sure all of your banks know you will be traveling. Also handy - type up your hotels and the dates you will be there and tuck it into the luggage tag of your suitcase. If your luggage is delayed, whoever is forwarding it will know where to send it. (Also add an emergency number to the bottom of that list so someone back home can help direct your orphaned suitcase to it's necessary destination.) Magellan makes bright yellow luggage tags labeled in several languages that indicate there's an itinerary inside for lost luggage. (Handy site, they are! Lots of ideas, gadgets, etc.)
Re: My $0.02 (part 2)
Date: 2012-04-01 11:59 pm (UTC)I recommend the travel pouches of Woolite - they take no space, the stuff rinses clean with minimal effort, and you never know when you're going to need to clean clothes or have to clean undies/layers after a sweaty day. (Rule of thumb for any traveling - pack layers, and pack essential pieces that you can mix-and-match. Pashmina-style scarves take no weight or space and they're really nice on a breezy day if it's not too cold. They also look elegant as a dress-up option for dinner out. )
Food/drink - A lot of places have small meals, etc, but there is quite often a dine-in charge. If it's on the table, it's an a la carte charge (bread, butter, etc) - this was true for Spain and Portugal, too. [In Spain/Portugal, you simply declined it when it reached the table, such as goat cheese or olives. Also, wine and beer were significantly cheaper than Coca Cola or other soft drinks - drink the local stuff and save a little money. :) ] In Rome, Mom and I had a nice lunch in a little alley near the Pantheon (carbonara! yum!) and while the pasta was only about 5 Euros, the eat-in charge was 2, and the water was another 2, etc. Just be aware that those little numbers may add up. We had better luck finding small sandwich shops and whatnot for quick takeaway meals, and budgeted our largest meal expenses on dinner at a nice restaurant. (I don't honestly recall the etiquette on tipping, but I've only heard that it's actually NOT a good idea if you're in Japan [it's taken as an insult], but I'd leave that to a guidebook check.)
Oh, Italians are very forward people. (I found that the men often flirt.) If you have the same need for strong personal space boundaries that I do, it's best to mentally prepare yourself beforehand. FYI.
Jet lag: My mom's yoga teacher said to find a park or other grassy area when you arrive and spent a few minutes with your shoes off, just barefoot on the grass. She swears that it helps with jet lag and time changes. I think staying hydrated and breathing deep to avoid anxiety do plenty towards avoiding jet lag, too. ;)
no subject
Date: 2012-04-02 03:00 am (UTC)I'm not a fan of packaged-tour stuff.
P.S. You should come to Canada for my cottage party, as an easy introduction to foreign countries! :)
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Date: 2012-04-02 03:07 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2012-04-02 06:03 pm (UTC)In some places, you have to pay to use public toilets, so keep some change handy.
Learn a few basic phrases of Italian, but I was always surprised when I asked a question in German (where I traveled) and got answered in English.
A small phrase book can be handy. My mom made her own phrase sheet when she went to Hungary because she was in non-tourist regions. Reading menus was the one place I really wished for a dictionary. Restaurants don't always have an English version, and I got surprised a few times. But big cities are used to foreign tourists.
I did an escorted tour with Globus for the first part of my trip to Germany, then went off on my own to visit some places that are not on the tours. It gave me a chance to see a lot without having to deal with making all the arrangements for the various cities. We did have some free days in big cities on the tours, so I researched in advance how to get to the museums I wanted to see.
Europe mostly uses chip&pin credit cards, so you may run into places that have trouble with your card, but tourist areas should be okay.
Oh, Capital One is the only credit card I know if that doesn't charge a foreign transaction fee.
no subject
Date: 2012-04-03 02:29 am (UTC)Learn some Italian. When I was in Thailand, I was deeply comforted by having a couple phrases to fall back on, and the people around me seemed to appreciate when I made the effort.
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Date: 2012-04-03 02:29 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2012-04-03 07:22 am (UTC)If you're not going to do everything together, bring unlocked GSM phones (they have to work on the 900 and 1800 MHz bands so some old AT&T and T-Mobile phones won't work) and buy local SIMs or buy cheap prepaid phones there - it makes coordinating your activities a lot easier. Using American phones overseas (if you even can; most Verizon and Sprint phones won't work in Europe) is ludicrously expensive.
Driving is probably OK if you want to see the countryside, but don't even think about driving in the cities. European cities, unlike many of our US cities, are walking territory; that's the best way to see them.
no subject
Date: 2012-04-04 03:31 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2012-04-04 03:32 am (UTC)